Experimenter hf net organizing

hal hfeinstein at cox.net
Mon Aug 7 07:32:17 CDT 2006

Thanks for telling us about your propnet.  I see you've done a lot
of good work establishing the net.  I think it would be beneficial for use
 to spend some time reading the documents
on the propnet site.  While I think propnet is interesting and in one or 
two ways has
similarities to what we want to do,  there are difference in our purpose 
if not methods.
I had not anticipated doing much work to gather propagation statistics 
which rightly
is a field of its own. Our goal is waveform and protocol experiments.
There are a number of protocol mechanism that we'd like to explore on 
HF, for
example, some of the advanced error correcting codes now frequently
found in commercial (but not amateur) systems,  a non-military approach 
to hf frequency hopping,
experiments with the adaptive mechanisms associated with  ALE  and
the infrequently used upper protocol layers of ALE.  I think our goal 
and focus
is different enough that  were not "reinventing the wheel."   In fact, 
I'm sure all our participants
would be delighted to learn whatever
we can from propnet, if only to avoid repeating problems propnet has 
already mastered.
A last point: there is also a difference in scale.  Our effort will be 
be at max 15 or so involved experimenters pretty much dedicated to 
trying out various ideas.
I do see something interesting here which you've implemented with 
propnet and the rudiments
we proposed to manage our experimenters network and that is  using the 
Internet to supply,
organize and manage  a cooperative amateur effort. This  may be a model for
future cooperative amateur efforts.
It would be useful to both efforts if we can keep an exchange of ideas


David A Aitcheson - KB3EFS wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> de Dave / KB3EFS(/2)
> Have any of you looked at the http://www.propnet.org web site
> and the system that this group of hams has in place for doing
> propagation studies?  If not then I suggest you do before you
> do the perverbial reinvention of the wheel.
> Using psk31 and windows software signal "catches" are reported
> to a server on the internet and plotted LIVE on the FINDU website.
> Basically we have the robots set up already!
> Click this link for the last 24 hours in North America on 20/10/6/2.
> http://propnet.findu.com/catch.cgi?last=24&geo=propnet/na.geo
> and click this link to see the last hour overlaid on a nationwide
> mosaic of weather radar.
> http://propnet.findu.com/catch.cgi?last=01&geo=http://www.qsl.net/n8qlt/nws_conus_sm.geo 
> Look for an article in CQ or QST (and websites) soon!
> The PropNet group would love to have your expertise and input,
> not to mention our desire to share our experiences with you.
> 73
> Dave Aitcheson - KB3EFS [FN24bi]
> Webmaster http://www.propnet.org
> hal wrote:
>> Dick Cramer and myself are beginning to organize
>> an hf experimenter net whose purpose is to support
>> both voice and data experiments in the hf band.
>> We would like to work in the 17meter band, on 18.140
>> and a second channel (not yet chosen) in the 20m band.
>> The ideas of this net is to bring together hams interested in
>> building and performing hf communications experiments.
>> At some point we would like to automate this process
>> to use unmanned automatic "robot" stations that receive
>> their orders over hf and listen and collect data transmitted
>> by an experimenter. But until we can design the robot
>> participating hams can collect the data and send it back to the 
>> experimenter
>> for analysis.  If collection software is required the experimenter
>> is responsible for writing these routines and distributing them
>> to participating stations, perhaps via a designated web site.
>> I have talked to several hams about the network and they
>> said they are willing to participate, at first as collection stations
>> for other experimenters and then as experimenters themselves.
>> The main purpose of the net as a "platform" for
>> experimenters.  And second, but equally important purpose,
>> is to allow the participants to understand the
>> experimenter's approach, the technology and how
>> the experimenter will use the data collected by net members.
>> I don't know yet how to support this part
>> of the net but it is just as important for participants to understand 
>> and
>> comment upon the experimenter's approach as is the experiment itself.
>> This week we are starting to assemble equipment and antennas
>> for the 17m and 20m channels and in a short time we will initiate
>> trial contacts between members in NoVirginia, SC and Florida to
>> get a better idea of the propagation.  Paul R has provided us
>> with an VOACap propagation model to use for this purpose.
>> Perhaps one of the first experiments will be to test out an
>> idea of using turbo code FEC on hf to see how noisy the
>> path can get and still allow relatively error free communications
>> to get through.
>> Net participants who have expressed  interest include
>> Dick Cramer  rwcfl at NOSPAMearthlink.net    florida
>> Hal Feinstein  hfeinstein at NOSPAMcox.net     No Virginia
>> Terry Fox      wb4jfi at NOSPAMamrad.org     Columbia S.C
>> Several others have spoken to me about participating.
>> If your interested please drop a line to Dick, Terry
>> or myself for the latest info.
>> (delete the NOSPAM to reply to the address)
>> -hal/wb3kdu

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